Dragons

[Gene]

Not a run-on of Tundra's thread, oddly enough. Instead, a poster on Kotaku got me thinking.

Just how do they get armor fitted on dragons anyway? I mean, do they take measurements of the dragon's head/neck, and then make the dragon go into a fitting room so it can try out what it likes? Does it stay still long enough for a group of dragon tailors to attach the armor? Do dragons even like armor on them, and do they even need it? I always thought dragon skin was tough by itself, and it seems like armor would just weigh it down.

Any ideas? Everyone loves dragons, but I never put armour on them.

[Tundra]

well, elephants used to have armour, so did horses, so I imagine it's possible...

[MelancholyBliss]

Um. I don't think of dragons with armor. I don't think I'd want to. I mean, I suppose a dragon could use armor. But I'd think that with its size, flight would be a little difficult with its weight and the added weight of armor in a size that would fit it.

Wait. No. I take that back. They totally get measured and try it on in a dressing room and have it adjusted if it doesn't fit. Maybe the dragon gained some weight between the first and last fittings. I supposed it could always go to Barneys or something. I'm sure they carry it. Though a wyvern might have a bit of an issue. They could always cut off the arm holes and sew it up.

[MichaelB]

Everyone loves dragons


Nuh-UH!

*stubbornly sits in the anti-dragon camp*

Chris Paolini managed to have a race of dragon-hating dwarves who nonetheless kept in pristine condition a set of dragon's armour that just happened to fit the first dragon to live among them in centuries. Made of gold, too. Soft, malleable, eye-catching gold.

[Eefje]

I don't think dragons in armour should be a good idea... makes it harder to fly, and they are anatomically seen already too heave to fly, I thought. So armour wouldn;t make it better, and most dragons' skin is armour in itself. But that depends on how you write your dragons... You can decide for yourself if you want armour on them, and if they are able to stand still long enough and all that.

[Gene]

Chris Paolini managed to have a race of dragon-hating dwarves who nonetheless kept in pristine condition a set of dragon's armour that just happened to fit the first dragon to live among them in centuries. Made of gold, too. Soft, malleable, eye-catching gold.

I know. Why on earth didn't they have it a gold-titanium alloy? :D

[AXJ]

Dude's just a kid. And he was probably writing fiction during science class.

[Gene]

*Pops over to Anti-Shur'tugal*


Paolini himself quotes, at various times, that Eragon was a book he started when he was fifteen (you know, right after he graduated from high school). He has also quoted less times that it took him about three years to finish the book. The first year to write the first draft, the second and third years to make the final drafts. So the version of Eragon you're reading, at the very least, was written by a seventeen-year-old.

Some fans refuse to see the obvious facts in that statement alone. And frankly, my only explanation is that they don't know the writing process. You see, you start out with an idea. And then you maybe make outlines, plan and/or draw out characters, and think on it a lot. And then you start writing. And then you go back somewhere along the line or when you finish it, and you may or may not rewrite it again. The rewriting part is particularly important--you're not just editing grammar and spelling, you're often removing whole chunks of story line or scenes and well, rewriting them. So that the actual physical prose the reader would be reading at that point would have been written at your age now, rather than your age two years ago.

Not that it should matter, but it does have a bearing on the fifteen-year-old argument. There's a big difference between fifteen and seventeen. Not only do most guys suddenly magically enter puberty at last, but mentally, you grow, too. It doesn't seem that all amazing when someone is being touted for something he made at a certain young age when in fact he did it when he was a bit older.

Don't even let me get started on Eldest. At the very least, Eldest was started when Paolini was finished with Eragon, which as he quoted, took three years (after he graduated from high school at fifteen, you know...just in case you forgot). That means he was at least eighteen--when he started it. Paolini was almost 22 when Eldest was released to the public. Yeah, that's right, close your mouths little kiddies--he was an adult when he wrote Eldest.
Not so amazing anymore, huh?

Not directed at you, Jake. Just fun to read.

[Orion283]

Armoring a dragon seems odd to me because I'm used to armor-tough scales already being part of the package. In the case of regular-strength scales, the armor would have to be lightweight and flexible. Probably not much heavier than human armor.

I'd probably also have two armor types; air-to-ground and air-to-air. AtG armor would mostly cover the bottom with little coverage on top to protect him arrows and such launched from troops below while he flies about torching and clawing. AtA armor would be designed with dragon-on-dragon combat in mind, with the best protection covering vital zones and favoring areas that could be hit from the front. Most likely dragons will clash face to face. And even then I suppose the underside would be the primary target because I can see that they would latch on belly to belly and start clawing at each other. Better protect the neck too. Lose some flexibility but it's a big weak point if it's a long-necked dragon.

[Lord of Fools]

My impression was always that dragons had almost impervious skin. This is all Tolkien's doing, of course, but I'm fairly sure his dragons were based on, if not drawn directly from, traditional European mythology. I think the armour's just there because it looks cool.

And unless it's ceremonial, gold armour sounds like the most impractical thing ever.

[Orion283]

There was a book I read once where it was said that the reason dragons hoarded gold was for bedding material. Compared to them it's relatively soft, and it won't burn or melt easily.

[Lord of Fools]

Makes sense. Not as heavy or poison as lead either.

[Dwiesel McAllister]

Yeah, I was under the impression that a dragon wouldn't need armour at all. I suppose, though, that if you're going to be armouring a dragon, you are probably on friendly terms with it, so it might not be as difficult to have it fitted. Then again, you'll have to take into consideration the size of the dragon and whether or not it is sentient. If it is a sentient dragon, it can probably go down to the dragon armour shop and get some blacksmith dragons to fit it for a reasonable price.
Either that or knock it unconscious. :D

[KeinesV]

Nuh-UH!

*stubbornly sits in the anti-dragon camp*

Chris Paolini managed to have a race of dragon-hating dwarves who nonetheless kept in pristine condition a set of dragon's armour that just happened to fit the first dragon to live among them in centuries. Made of gold, too. Soft, malleable, eye-catching gold.


*Hands Michael a soda and stubbornly hunkers down next to him*

+ + +

I hate dragons. In my imagination, the proper sort of dragon is just a big predatory reptile, like an alligator, crocodile, goana, whatever.

They 'kill you ass'.

For eating.

No wings, fire, gold, nothing. Similarly - flying or not flying, I imagine they wouldn't need much armor other than scales. Imagine it - if you've ever had a huge knot of scar tissue, or really thick toenail, I guess (keratin) - on a larger scale that would be pretty sufficient as armor. I guess though, "land-dragons" or something could presumably have armor like a horse or elephant, or I guess if the dragon-riders or whatever are real bastards and "clip" the wings (or even saw them off) then armor would be more practical.

[Lord of Fools]

It'd cost a cocking lot to armour a dragon too, I imagine, let alone a whole army of the bastards.

Er, sorry. Early mornings make me vulgar.

[Orion283]

My only big qualifier for a cool dragon is that they don't have those big long wobbly necks (unless they're the oriental dragons, then it's okay, but I prefer European). Savage dragons are good for the terror angle, though a wise-and-powerful dragon who can also get savage really has it all.

[KeinesV]

"wise an powerful" dragons totally piss me off. they belong alongside mary-sue, imo

[MichaelB]

Deus ex machina, Konrakku. That's all they're ever used for. By 'they' I mean the idea of the 'wise and powerful dragon'. Dragons are a predator species, not poets or philosophers. They are the embodiement of medieval sin, the devil incarnate... they should not be used in the place of the priest archetype.

[Einna]

I think one of three things; they wouldn't need it, they'd be sentient enough to get it done like a person, or you wouldn't be able to do it.

[Dwiesel McAllister]

No wings, fire, gold, nothing.

Actually, I saw a pretty cool mockumentary on the Discovery channel explaining how dragons could have wings and fire. In prehistoric times, I suppose they evolved from pterodactyls or something. (I missed the very beginning) Then, after the end of the Mesozoic era, they took to the seas. Their wings wasted away into tiny arms, like the Oriental dragons. Somehow, they grew fins, and after they returned to the land, their fins evolved into wings and they became the six-limbed critters we know of today.

As for the fire, their intestinal bacteria produced a lot of hydrogen. Then, the dragons would eat platinum (WTF?????), which would react with the hydrogen and produce fire. At least, I think that's what they said. Chemistry has never been my forte. They also had some kind of tracheal flap that protected their lungs from any fire back-tracking.

Sorry if I seem kind of nerdy for this, but I really get a kick out of speculative biology. :)

I never really got the whole gold thing, aside from the metaphor. Maybe they're like giant, reptilian magpies???

[Thuriel]

Hey, if the dragons in Pern can eat rocks to breathe fire, anything is possible.

[Hippie]

Dwiesel, I saw the same thing on Discovery Channel! It was totally awesome.

[Gene]

I remember that programme - I think it was presented by a manic guy in a beard who seemed to have ADHD on the subject of dragons, running hither and thither at the drop of a hat. There was also plenty of CGI. I think the science at work was pretty questionable - understandably, given the show was entertainment-based rather than factual - and, really, I can't understand why some trick of biology which allowed an animal's torso and throat to be resistant to fire within the body would have evolved out of the animal kingdom. I'd bloody like to be able to breathe fire and not get burned.

[Dwiesel McAllister]

I think the science at work was pretty questionable - understandably, given the show was entertainment-based rather than factual...

Yes, but this is the same station that likes to supply us with documentaries on how the earth will be ten million years from now when all the humans have left and giant squids take over the world. :)

[KeinesV]

Oh god, those "documentaries" wake the draconic ire of my inner science nerd.

That squid one - that was also the one with SHARKOPATHS? wasn't it. The only plausible creature in that fucking pile of refuse was the spider. I wish to hunt down each and every one of those so-called experts, and confiscate their bongs.

And also execute the ones that made a habit of involving themselves in such affronts to knowledge.

[Dwiesel McAllister]

I don't remember the sharkopaths. I probably burned them out of my brain. I remember the names as being super lame, though.

I did really like the dragon one, though, because I love speculation, regardless of how factual it might be, but sometimes I wonder why these legitimate scientists aren't out finding out how to shorten telomeres in cancerous cells so whe can CURE CANCER, which is USEFUL.

[Gholam]

One word: Deathwing (at least I hope that was his name)

Dragon from Warcraft 2 and mentioned in World of Warcraft. From what I rememebr he had adamantite plates molded to his scales. But for arguments sake if it was light enough to be able to fly yet durable enough to withstand whatever, then it could almost be riveted in place depending on the hardness etc of the scales.

Wouldn't want it to rust though, might get annoyingly itchy.

[heartsease1872]

It'd cost a cocking lot to armour a dragon too, I imagine, let alone a whole army of the bastards.

Er, sorry. Early mornings make me vulgar.


Hahahahaha :D

That's my favourite post EVER. *hi-fives and goes back to lurkdom*

[Thuriel]

Having now read Beowulf, I feel like pointing out that the dragon in Beowulf flies and breathes fire. Not sure why that's important, other than evidence that such things go way back, but yeah.

[Lord of Fools]

Hahahahaha :D

That's my favourite post EVER. *hi-fives and goes back to lurkdom*

Aww, thankee. I do my best.

I never got into dragons, either as a fantastical device or as pseudoscientific possibilities. Of all the pseudoscientific possibilities, my favourites would be the chupacabra, the lost continent of Mu and the reptilians.