Surnames

[Tundra]

My Fantasy novel is actually in the future of Earth but no longer ON earth.
It's medievally, but I want some differences.
At the moment i'm looking at surname structures. I don't really want a patriarchial society for the main country i'm looking at. Amongst the nobility, the surname structure will be of the 'Somebodyfirstname Surname of such and such' format.

Amongst the ordinary people, i don't really want a patriarchial surname format, nor a matriarchial.

Any ideas? I have one idea I've been thinking of for a while, but i'd like to hear other suggestions.

And whatever it is, it has to make sense for people from earth to develop. (because surname patterns do change, eg, no longer are you called John Miller because you run a mill)

[Aimless]

Associate them with factions, colonies, military units, companies, or place of origin/residency?

[Tundra]

There'd be too many with the same surname in the same area then, who wouldn't actually be related...

[Aimless]

So? :o

Go clan style.

[Tundra]

I know i'll just be accused of setting things in stone, but I don't want clan style stuff. Not for this country.

[Aimless]

Make it like chromosomes. Everyone has a composite surname, each parent gives their kids one part of it to make new composite surnames.

[vindemiatrix]

I was about to suggest something along those lines. Give them hyphenated composite names, with both their mother's and father's surnames, and when they have children they can decide which names they want their kids to take depending on which of the families they're most proud of being a part of. Makes up for some interating snobbery ("we're not having THEIR name. put in your grandmother's surname, she was a Gorin!") and also potentially long and ridiculous surnames if there's a lot that the parents want to put in.

[Aimless]

Hmmm or have sons inherit male names and daughters female? :o

Or have the sons inherit female surnames and the daughters male ones!

Should the order of the names matter?

[snooze]

For surnames I enjoy reading the lists of credits in movies. I know this probably doesn't help you at all, but this woman (http://imdb.com/name/nm2060136/)'s name made me and my friend Curtis laugh for about 15 minutes straight after we got out of the theatre for GoF. Hardly a threatening name for a DeathEater...I mean..."Snape...Malfoy...Karkaroff...HIGGINBOTTOM!"

[Tundra]

Yep, the idea that I have involves hyphenated names. I thought that could be realistic to come 'next' because so many people nowadays are doing it.
But what sort of consequences would that have...

[vindemiatrix]

Name snobbery, as I said. Maybe if one family's name was more desirable than the other's, there would be arguments over which family name the kids would take. There would be certain surnames it would be fashionable to have because they link to wealthy or influential families, so you could see someone with a certain family name when they only have a grandmother belonging to that family.

Perhaps also the firstborn heir would take one name, while the other kids would take another? Just a random thought that sprung to mind. You said you didn't want a patriarchal society, but maybe the heir would take just the father's name while the other kids would take their mother's, or both? Or the other way around, even.

[Tundra]

no, it's not really a single heir society. (except amongst the very rich who have huge houses etc that can't be divided) Kids are expected to make their own way, in business or occupations etc, and then once parents die, any remaining money etc is divided amongst the kids. Sort of like nowadays i suppose. Though communal living with family members is not uncommon.

I was thinking of having everyone have a double barrelled name. Lets see if i can get this diagram right.

Okay, there's two unmarried people- Jane WhiteBlack and John SmithJones.

They get married. Jane becomes Jane WhiteSmith, John becomes John SmithWhite.

Female children are called Girl WhiteSmith, boys, Boy Smithwhite.

Would that work? I'm not sure...



I *know* that marriage does not take away your family members. So, if a girl gets married, she's still perfectly free to go and visit her mother, or whatever. Like a modern family.

So I'm hoping then that the name "White" and "Smith" will be the family line. The other name indicates the marriages.

[vindemiatrix]

That could be a lot of fun, although it could possibly be a bit complicated in practice, especially if you need to explain it to the reader. It may be worth considering WHY the nobles wanted to surname people like this. Why would the nobles reverse the order for a boy or a girl, for example? And so forth. Just a thought.

[Tundra]

This is the ordinary people, not the nobles... I'm not sure if i would explain it or not. Someone will be getting married though.

[Sulis]

An idea! Let me see if I can explain it in a way that makes sense.

So... Jane and Joe are born to John and Judy. Each child takes the name of their parent of the same sex, so the children are Jane Judy, and Joe John. Jane and Joe grow up. When they get married, they add their spouse's names to their last name. So, when Jane Judy marries Michael Martin, she becomes Jane (daughter of) Judy- (wife of) Michael, and he becomes Michael (son of) Martin- (husband of) Jane.

Or you could always use moieties. Moieties are fun...

[Tundra]

^ That would get very very long though...

[Sulis]

Nah, each person would have at most 3 names, because you're only taking the parents' first names for a surname, not all of theirs. Actually, that could be the big difference between the nobility and the commoners. The nobility could keep track of the entire lineage in their names, and the comoners only for the parents.