physical contact between males

[vindemiatrix]

This question mostly goes out to the men (and boys *cough*) on the forum, but if any young ladies have anything to share that they think would help me out. then go for it.

I've had a plot swimming around in my head for ages, but to plan any further I basically want to know what levels of physical contact are acceptable between two male close friends. I realise that it varies depending on the men involved, but I'd like to hear your own thoughts, opinions and experiences on the subject. Thanks in advance for any help. *grin*

[Tundra]

:lol: AXJ? :P

I know of some (straight) guys who are very touchy feely. Always leaning on each other, playfighting, sitting close, messing up each other's hair, etc. In fact, more physical contact than I have with my female friends.

[vindemiatrix]

:lol: AXJ? :P

Was thinking of him in particular. *grin* AXJ, the Endlessly Helpful, who has saved a plot of mine more than once. *big grin*

[AXJ]

LOL. 8)

Touching between normal staight (western) males is actually pretty heavily regulated by unspoken rules. Let's see if I can figure out what they actually are, here...

- Casual contact is fine, but should never last for longer than a couple of seconds. This encompasses things like pats on the back, playful punches, and the like.

- With most guys I know, really close friends can hug, but it's normal to put something between you. With my friends, we clasp hands (that sort of 'upper handshake' thing) and sort of hug -through- that handshake... although the hug is closer to being two solid thumps on the back with your fist. In accordance with rule #1, it never lasts more than a few seconds.

- If, for some reason, you've got to be in physical contact with another guy for more than a few seconds, it's absolutely critical that you carefully maintain a bored or unhappy expression, just to show you're not enjoying it. http://w0rdie.com/upload/files/2/Smileys/laugh.gif

- Generally speaking, any sort of stroking or rubbing is verboten- it's too intimate. Pats and squeezes are more acceptable. Either should be done firmly and shouldn't last long at all.

- Under specialized circumstances, longer contact may be okay. For example, I'm really good at massage, and I've had (close) male friends ask me to work out a knot, etc. Even though this sort of thing is clearly for medical reasons, it's still almost always at least a little uncomfortable for both parties. And I'd say at least 60-70% or so of guys would NEVER ask even a close friend for any sort of rubbing or massage.

- Longer contact can be okay, as long as you're doing something aggressive, like wrestling or playfighting.

...is this the sort of thing you're looking for? If so, I'll try to keep going... do you have any specific questions?

[vindemiatrix]

Great so far. If you have more then by all means carry on. One question; would you say that the rules you stated apply to the vast majority, or can you think of men that you know who are exceptions? (Obviously there are exceptions; Tundra proved that one to me, much to my relief.)

And a little more about the guys in question; they're both in their early twenties, fairly normal; one's straight, and one as far as I know has never been in any kind of romantic relationship. Both are outgoing and friendly types, the apparently asexual one more so than his friend; the slightly shyer one is very affectionate towards his female friends. Beyond that I'm still figuring stuff out. I may have to make them both girls, but then I'd lose a substantial amount of plot...

[Aimless]

Stay away from inner thighs unless you're smacking them to cause pain. For exceptions, come to Sweden 8)

It varies a lot from country to country ;) Here, for example, if I'm out wiht my mates there's no problem having your arm around a shoulder orresting your head on someone or whatever.

That said, no, no rubbing or stroking, but that goes for most friends in general :P

[snooze]

My brother and his friend have some insane bonding rituals, most of which involve sneaking up on the unsuspecting victim whilst he is engrossed in a video game and then sucker punching him in the...erm...how can I put this politely? ...Nuts?
Then again they are all in their late teens and usually have one or two beers down them when this starts happening. And it's usually 2 or 3 on one, rather than a one on one fight.

[AXJ]

One question; would you say that the rules you stated apply to the vast majority, or can you think of men that you know who are exceptions? (Obviously there are exceptions; Tundra proved that one to me, much to my relief.)

Oh, sure, there are always exceptions. Me and ST had a buddy back in school who was straight but still very touchy-feely. In his case I think most of why he did it was to prove to everyone how 'open-minded' he was- he bragged about this fact often- but nevertheless, he was definately an exception. When he was playing that up (eg, he asked me for backrubs often) it sometimes made most other guys (and many of the girls) around him a little uncomfortable, as he was 'breaking the rules' without having a reason, but only a few guys completely shunned him for it. Most of us just thought him a bit odd.

I've noticed that some groups have looser gender rules than others, too. The theater kids, for example, always seemed to be a lot more comfortable with bending the normal guy rules.

And a little more about the guys in question; they're both in their early twenties, fairly normal; one's straight, and one as far as I know has never been in any kind of romantic relationship. Both are outgoing and friendly types, the apparently asexual one more so than his friend; the slightly shyer one is very affectionate towards his female friends. Beyond that I'm still figuring stuff out. I may have to make them both girls, but then I'd lose a substantial amount of plot...

The only issue I see with that is that the only asexual guys I've known were somewhat uncomfortable with physical contact with people of any gender. Friendly enough in all other regards, but generally pretty shy about being touched or having their personal space invaded at all. But maybe that's just the folks I've known, and I've really only known maybe two guys I'd class as real asexuals.

[Aimless]

From what I gather, an asexual man is more likely to be uncomfortable with physical contact and openness than, say, a happy, experienced, relaxed manslut :)

Vindie, it depends entirely on context and setting and stuff. Are these guys in the US, or in Sweden? ;) I mean, er, Rome.

[Tundra]

And if they're Australian, i'd imagine it'd be different again. I've been through some conversations with Thren, about Irish and Australian tendencies to insult the ones you love out of affection. I'd imagine we'd have differences with 'touching' as well.
If they're in a muslim or many asian countries, they'd be likely to be walking around holding hands.

[vindemiatrix]

The only issue I see with that is that the only asexual guys I've known were somewhat uncomfortable with physical contact with people of any gender. Friendly enough in all other regards, but generally pretty shy about being touched or having their personal space invaded at all.

You pretty much described the character there. He's incredibly outgoing, the kind who starts up conversations with strangers, but he does seem a bit iffy on being touched. It's mostly his friend I'm asking about. Besides, any info given to me in this thread will probably prove useful for other things I write too. The problem is that I dislike physical contact myself, so I really have no clue about it, for either gender.

Vindie, it depends entirely on context and setting and stuff. Are these guys in the US, or in Sweden? I mean, er, Rome.

South England. *grin* They live together and have been best friends since primary school.

I've been through some conversations with Thren, about Irish and Australian tendencies to insult the ones you love out of affection. I'd imagine we'd have differences with 'touching' as well.

Yeah, the Irish insulting-the-ones-you-love can be a bit shocking to people who haven't experienced it before. *grin* And as far as the Irish go, or at least the Northern Irish, I've seen both extremes; the guys who will never, ever touch beyond the occasional punch, and the guys who always have their arms around each other's shoulders and so forth. I just want other people's experiences with it so I can pick up general ideas, opinions about it and so forth.

[Aimless]

We should all go to Belfast and hug Vindie <3

Tried asking any guys from England, btw? What's their background? Working class? Upper middle class? What are they, regular schoolboys? How old are they? :o :o

My British friends are very very camp, is all I'll say :o

[kiss_me_now9]

My British friends are very very camp, is all I'll say :o

No comment on that... We seem to have really wimpy long fuzzy haired lads around here, most of which are 'camper than a tent'.

[Tundra]

oh, also, is this modern?
If you even go back ten years there could be a big difference in what's acceptable or not.

[vindemiatrix]

We should all go to Belfast and hug Vindie <3

Well you can't all stay here, it's cramped enough as it is. Nice thought though. *grin*

Tried asking any guys from England, btw? What's their background? Working class? Upper middle class? What are they, regular schoolboys? How old are they? :o :o

My British friends are very very camp, is all I'll say :o

Argh. Okay, I'm gonna give their names else answering these will be awkward.

The supposed asexual is Lark, and the straight guy is Griff. Lark's twenty-three, upper-middle-class, batty family, alcoholic mother, American family, younger sister that he hardly knows, hairdresser, incredibly gossipy for a guy, has a lot of female friends and is teetotal. Griff's lower-middle class, big family, middle-child, rather overlooked in favour for his disabled younger brother and genius older sister, twenty-two, works intermittantly, otherwise lives on the dole and sponges from Lark, lazy, scruffy, plays a lot of videogames, good with kids, string of ex-girlfriends, is actually incredibly intelligent but has never realised it.

And I don't need to ask guys from England since I lived there and have male friends over there, and the contact level varies hugely. You have your uptight repressed type, and your rather-too-affectionate type. *grin* As KMN said, there's a lot of wimpy fuzzy long-haired guys around.

oh, also, is this modern?
If you even go back ten years there could be a big difference in what's acceptable or not.

Absolutely modern.

[Aimless]

An asexual hairdresser?! That's new ;) Actually, I'm not sure if that'll work with the whole aversion to touch thing, given that that's what hairdressers _do_ (touch).

[kiss_me_now9]

An asexual hairdresser?! That's new ;) Actually, I'm not sure if that'll work with the whole aversion to touch thing, given that that's what hairdressers _do_.

Could do... Like, a doctor who's squeamish or doesn't like blood. Doesn't stop them doing their job to full extent, but if they're in a position when it's their blood... Fainting fit ahoy. (Dunno how logical that sounded...)

[Aimless]

An asexual hairdresser?! That's new ;) Actually, I'm not sure if that'll work with the whole aversion to touch thing, given that that's what hairdressers _do_.

Could do... Like, a doctor who's squeamish or doesn't like blood. Doesn't stop them doing their job to full extent, but if they're in a position when it's their blood... Fainting fit ahoy. (Dunno how logical that sounded...)

Well yeah, it'd be like such a doctor working as a full-time trauma-surgeon :o :o

[Tundra]

ah, but the thing is, I can touch people for 'work' purposes. Like if i'm at choir, and i have to help younger girls get into their costumes. etc. But, I wouldn't normally. There's a difference between touching for work, and touching for actual affection.

[Aimless]

ah, but the thing is, I can touch people for 'work' purposes. Like if i'm at choir, and i have to help younger girls get into their costumes. etc. But, I wouldn't normally. There's a difference between touching for work, and touching for actual affection.

But in your case it doesn't really sound like an aversion, tbh.

[Tundra]

I'm pretty aversive to physical contact, and I don't start it, or at least, very rarely.
But anyway, the point was that he can touch people's hair, and enjoy hairdressing, but still not like BEING touched. Or touching friends in a 'friendly' way.

[vindemiatrix]

Exactly what Tundra said up there. His problem is more with affectionate touching, especially when a) he doesn't instigate it and b) when it's unexpected. He's got no problem doing it for a job, same way I wouldn't. I never said he was completely touch-averse, just that he doesn't like being physically affectionate at all.

[Aimless]

Why did he choose to become a hairdresser? :o

[SouthernTiger]

Yup. That is my question. Hairdressers tend to be really touchy-feely. I mean, think about he last time you had your hair washed by someone else. Unless he has someone else do it for him. Some salons do have a person dedicated to washing hair for the stylists.

[vindemiatrix]

Since when was hair-washing at a salon affectionate touching? O_o I think I already explained this but he doesn't have a problem with touching people for purposes that are non-affectionate. Someone somewhere alone the line here has gotten that idea and I want to stop that one now. *grin* He doesn't like being touched. I know people who are just like this, so I know I'm not talking out of my arse (for once in my life; I suppose I have to give it a rest sometimes)

I mean, even if he did have juniors to wash hair for him, as it pretty much works over here (I've never had my hair washed by a stylist at a salon, only by trainees), there would have been a point where he was a trainee too and would have had to do the same thing.

I do think things out first sometimes, apparently. *grin*

As to why he became a hairdresser? Special monetary allowances if you take vocational courses at a technical college, and also it's dead easy to get a hairdressing job over here, and also he likes people.