girls pretending to be boys

[Tundra]

I was talking about this again with Sillypants the other day. What movies or books or tv shows do you know of where there are girls pretending to be boys? And *how* convincing do you think it would be, in 'olden day' real life type situations rather than total fantasy/comedies?
I've got that character who tries it, she only manages it for a few days though with her new friends (hits her head while swimming and when they save her they notice) but they pretend she is when other people are around.

[Maegan]

Ever seen the movie Boys Don't Cry? There's a good example of it working, but she had to have a certain body type and go to a few extremes to be successful at it (well, and she was raped and later killed when caught, but it was a brutal movie).

You'd have to have a certain body type and facial features for it to work well....there's only so much breast you can hide, the curvey hips, delicate face, voice giveaways, etc. Plus, you'd definitely have to learn some male mannerisms (they walk differently, that kind of thing). It would be really complicated to do, I think. Maybe in different time periods it was easier because you never saw a girl wearing pants or clothing between genders was strictly deliniated so people would never think a girl would dress like a guy....and there were eunuchs (sp?) and sometimes very feminine guys kept around rulers, that kind of thing.

[skyscape]

I can think of Joan of Arc, and Shakespeare in Love, where I seem to recall Gwyneth Paltrow having a moustache for one of the scenes, and then of course there's our Marian: "Here's my identificaaaation!" I think it would be very difficult to pull off without copious amounts of plastic surgery, a dark room and a sore throat.

[AXJ]

In the most recent movie version (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379889/) of The Merchant of Venice starring Al Pacino, Jeremy Irons, and Joseph Fiennes, the actresses who play Portia and Nerissa do a pretty amazing job of going FTM for the courtroom scene.

[Tundra]

*snorts* 'here's my identification...' :lol: But that sheriff is not very hard to fool.

My character is only 15 or 16, so she only has to look like a 15 or 16 year old boy, not a full grown man... if that helps.

[melydia]

I agree that Boys Don't Cry is an excellent modern-day FTM example. I've seen pictures of the woman whose life it's based on, and she looks like a young man. For an added mind spin, go watch Hilary Swank in something else, where she plays an attractive woman. It's trippy.

I don't know how the time period would effect the ease of a woman posing as a man. Perhaps she'd have it easier if she posed as a fop. In any time period, loose clothing, small breasts (or a bound chest), and a masculine haircut go a long way - after all, how often do you take a good long look at somebody you don't know very well? She'd also have to practice speaking with a lower voice and walking with a more masculine gait.

But no matter what Shakespeare says, you probably wouldn't be able to fool people who know you well.

[Tundra]

No, she won't fool the people who she sees a lot of. But she does it on the night of a party so the house is crowded with a lot of strangers, and then she's out in the world full of strangers.

[SouthernTiger]

PITCH BLACK. SEE IT.

[Tundra]

is it scary?

[SouthernTiger]

Hmm. Scary? Sort of? Tough to answer that question, exactly. (AXJ? Opinions?)

It's a "Jumper Flick". Meaning, things jump out a LOT at you. Serious thrill factor, but the story and especially the characters are REALLY good. I LOVE THAT MOVIE. I watched it EVERY NIGHT for MONTHS when my fiance (now husband) was living in Indiana.

It's also good sci-fi. And the cinematography is really good, too. DEFINITELY worth the jumpiness and the heart pounding.

Both versions are good (unrated and rated) but the unrated has a few extras in it. (I own both.)

But it does have a female impersonating a male -- and *I* think it would be highly applicable here.

[sillypants]

I think that was filmed in South Australia, somewhere in the outback, maybe at Cooper Pedy?

[Tundra]

I'm such a chicken when it comes to movies and books.

[Einna]

PITCH BLACK!!! Awesome film, totally awesome, I love that movie so very very very much!
Only actually worked for Jack/Audrey 'cause of her age though.
Oh, and I saw "Boys Don't Cry". That was wicked. I like on of the guys in it...I can't remember who it was, but it was the one who did prison time, dark hair, stubbly, the one that loved you other girl to bits 'cause she wrote to him in jail. That guy. He was great.

[Aimless]

L Word, end of first season/beginning of second :o Ayvan.

[Aquamonet]

Terry Pratchett - Monstrous Regiment (if I remember correctly).

Tipping the Velvet (I know it was a book but I can't remember who wrote it)

I think it would work in some cases but the girl would have to be pretty flat cheasted to start with. They'd always look like pretty girly boys though.

[AXJ]

I'm such a chicken when it comes to movies and books.

Er, to be safe, I'd go ahead and avoid Pitch Black, then. Bummer, tho.

[Sammi]

Of course, there are some cases where females look fairly masculine from the start and could pass with a simple binding of the breasts. And there's something to be said for selective perception. Bound breasts, combined with a short haircut and a slightly-slouching, less-hip-moving gait can convince most people. Heck, I have a friend who has been often confused for a male, despite the fact that she doesn't try. She just happens to hate girly stuff. She usually wears multiple layers of shirts and a hoodie and no bra, so her chest isn't exactly emphasized. Add her short hair and androgynous walk and many people don't take a second look. She has a high-ish voice, too, but that doesn't discourage people from going with their first assumption. (It was obvious to me from the beginning what her sex was, but apparantly I'm weird like that. :roll: )

And if you practise, you can make your vocal chords a little wider (like making your lungs bigger through breathing exercise.) The real trick is speaking from your throat instead of your chest after you've gotten used to the latter.

[Einna]

I used to dress like a boy...baggy trousers and hoodies and stuff, and when I was really young (seven or eight) and met and befriended a boy who honestly thought I was another boy right up until I was 13 and crying because a boy in my tutor had called me fat. Lol...I was a pathetic kid.

[Gholam]

Lord of the Rings books/movie with one of the Riders of Rohan.

There was apparently a priest who rose to the position of Cardinal I think who no-one knew was a female until she apparently gave birth during the altar procession.

[SouthernTiger]

Arr! There were several females "on the account"! All of the scurvy wenches dressed as men!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Bonny

Aaaaand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-dresser#Famous_historical_examples_of_cross-dressing_people

(Pope Joan is listed.)

[Sammi]

Lord of the Rings books/movie with one of the Riders of Rohan.
That was Eowyn, daughter of Theoden, shield-maiden and princess of Rohan. She slays the Witch King of Angmar, who no mortal man could kill. Of course, she wasn't a man. 8)

[snooze]

Trevor Nunn's Twelfth Night has a girl dressed as a boy. There's an interesting montage near the beginning to show the main character's transformation into a man. She binds her boozies and cuts her hair and wears a moustache and lowers her voice and practices male mannerisms and gestures with her friend the Sea Captain. Then throughout the movie she learns quite a bit about how men behave when not in the presence of ladies.

[Tundra]

I'm still trying to figure this out.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Livinginthepast2/200299332-001.jpg

This is a boy. Who looks like a girl pretending to be a boy.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Livinginthepast2/16664.jpg
This is also a boy. But i swear, he looks like a girl.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Livinginthepast2/79856.jpg

This is a girl, who if she cut her hair, would look sort of like the second boy I think. And, just like with those two boys above, if i told you they were girls, you'd probably believe me, but if they were presented as boys, you'd just be like 'oh. okay then.' and then have no reason to question it.

that girl looks almost exactly how i want my character to look... but she's a bit young...

[Wilwarin]

In Mozart's opera The Marriage of Figaro (one of his best), the page to the Duke (Cherubino) is dressed up to look like a girl... the funniest part about that is in the opera Cherubino is played by a woman (alto), because "he" is a teenage boy. So it's a female to male to female... :roll: I love it!!
Mozart rocks!! :)

[sillypants]

So it's a female to male to female...

Lol, similar to how Shakespeare must have been back when women weren't allowed to perform... In Twelth Night or Merchant of Venice, it would have been men dressed as women, who then had to dress as men!

[Maulden]

There's that one relatively new movie with Amanda Bynes in it... I think it's called "She's The Man." But anyways, she pretends to be a guy in it, and does a pretty good job.

Oh, and those pics that Tundra posted... I think all 3 of them look like guys. :P

[LadyAbby]

The movie is based off of Shakespeare's Twelfth Night.

[Tundra]

^ really? cool! :D Doubt it will be as good as 10 things i hate about you, based on The Taming of the Shrew...
Well, if you think all three look like boys, then that's still good, because it means the girl would pass as a boy! I still think those boys look VERY girlie though, and if they grew their hair or stuffed bras or... something... or, even claimed that they were a girl, to people who didn't know them... they'd pass.