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View Full Version : Attn: Name geeks & Elizabethan gurus


AXJ
February 27th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Two questions for you. Background: I'm beta reading a novel set in an English colony in Virginia in 1587.

When did 'Dick' become a common nickname for 'Richard'? Would it be common for a character to refer to a Richard as 'Dick' in 1587?

Also, would it be period for a character to shorten other characters names with an -ie, ie, Arnold becomes Arnie, John Jones becomes Jonesie?

snooze
February 27th, 2006, 02:39 PM
Two questions for you. Background: I'm beta reading a novel set in an English colony in Virginia in 1587.

When did 'Dick' become a common nickname for 'Richard'? Would it be common for a character to refer to a Richard as 'Dick' in 1587?

Also, would it be period for a character to shorten other characters names with an -ie, ie, Arnold becomes Arnie, John Jones becomes Jonesie?

Firstly: Yes, I think Dick would have been acceptable then.
Secondly: The shortening would possibly work too.

But I think both would depend on social circumstance and upbringing. The -ie endings would sound more natural in a Cockney accent to my ear, or one of the rougher dialects. Also--Dick would most likely not be such a usual nickname if you were a Richard in the upper circles of society.

Also note that the diminuative -ie denotes a Scottish origin, whereas a -y or -ey ending is typically more British, in spelling.

Sulis
February 27th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Well, Shakepeare used the expresson "every Tom, Dick, or Francis" in Henry IV, so I think it would be just fine.

And the use of diminutives for nicknames is pretty common in most eras, but I'd bet the frequency then would really depend on the ages and relative social status of the individuals involved. I don't know for sure, unfortunately. Hell, at that point, it was reasonably rare for someone of "good" (aka not criminal or very lower class) status to even call someone by their given name, never mind a nickname. Nicknames of any sort would have been reserved for times you're dealing with close family, people of substantially lower social status than you, and any time you wanted to be really rude to someone.

AXJ
February 27th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Hell, at that point, it was reasonably rare for someone of "good" (aka not criminal or very lower class) status to even call someone by their given name, never mind a nickname.

Which is to say, everyone would be Mr. Smith or Captain Jones or whatever?

Do you suppose this would still apply to, say, civilian males working closely together in a remote colony? If it matters, the MC is minor nobility (albeit poor) and a former professional soldier, but he's sort of been living on the fringes for a while now.

Sulis
February 28th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Well, at that point, it was still reasonably common for the average person to use "Goodman Smith" or "Goodwife/Goody Smith", depending on gender for someone of commoner status. "Master" or "Mistress" would have also been acceptable, though would have usually indicated a degre of education. Goodman would have been the more usual. It would have been "Mister" for someone of higher status, and you'd better believe that Captain Jones' title would have been used by everyone except his wife and children, and even they would have used it in public. Even his superiors would have used it, because it emphasises exactly what his place is.

And I think that, though each man might have close friends that were permitted to use his given name, most people would use titles.

AXJ
February 28th, 2006, 03:39 AM
Perfect!! Thank you!!

Tundra
February 28th, 2006, 09:29 AM
I'm pretty sure that close friends, and siblings, used first names.