van, von, etc. Suggestions needed!

[Tundra]

I'm trying to name my characters who are members of the nobility.

I have two countries, next to each other. They both have nobility, but one has a constitutional monarchy (The King has the role similar to today's Prime Ministers) and the other has an elected monarchy. (which i've invented the rules for). The two countries have a fairly good relationship, the countries are very friendly. But not all that much travel goes on to other countries with ordinary people, as there isn't really any fast transport, and the fast transport there is is expensive.

These two countries also share borders with OTHER countries.

So, i'm trying to name my nobility. I want something like 'from such and such a place' sort of format. (the ordinary people have a different format). It's like it's in the future.
So what are some 'starters' for names? What do they mean? Or can you think of any new ones, seeing as it's in the future?

maybe "Co" as in "care of"?

And, do you think that two countries next to each other, with a very similar language, would have different nobility surname starters?

[Aimless]

I can't picture a future with nobles ;)

How about company affiliations or positions?

[Tundra]

it's not the EARTHS future. it's humanity's future. I don't think earth will have nobles, but i think this planet they're on would.

[vindemiatrix]

I kind of parodied this once, but I actually think that the concept was viable. I'm not sure if this is what you want, though...

Nobility had your average first name and surname, so let's say we've got a woman called Alastrine Parthalan. However, to that you add her mother's name and where she's from with particle things, so that becomes Alastrine am Crestiana do Parthalan o Meridia, meaning Alastrine, daughter of Crestiana, of the Parthalan family of Meridia. Boys would have "son of" instead of "daughter of", obviously.

Or, if she gets married, you add her husband's name into the equation while still keeping her maiden name in there, which means you und up with Alastrine am Crestiana do Parthalan ya Paulino do Gregeriel o Marlantese, or Alastrine, daughter of Crestiana of the Parthalan family, married to Paulino of the Gregeriel family, of Marlantese. Her plain name would be Alastrine Gregeriel in that case, or Alastrine Gregeriel of Marlantese.

You can also say, the longer the names, the higher the nobility, and then add the other parent's name in too. And the mother's former living place. And the man/woman they married's parents.

Sorry if it's not what you're looking for. But then, I can see one country thinking this system is ridiculous and just going with Lord and Lady or something far simpler. *grin*

[Tundra]

out of curiousity, what happens when that married woman has a daughter? Do they just add it on? Or does the daughter get the father's surname? Or both?

[vindemiatrix]

Depends, I guess. She would have her mother's first name and possibly surname added to her name, and possibly her father's first name too if he was someone important, but her surname would officially be that of her father's. The rest is fluff and confectionery. So in my example Alastrine and Paulino's daughter Alessandrine would be, by the same method of naming as her mother used, Alessandrine am Alastrine do Gregeriel o Marlantese. And she would be Alessandrine Gregeriel (of Marlantese) if she were keeping it short or introducing herself informally.

It all depends on how important the family is and what the parents decide would be added to her name - if Alessandrine's grandmother was particularly important or well-known they might even add a "granddaughter of" particle in there somewhere. Of course, lesser nobility would probably be looked down upon or ostracised for daring to give their children such long names that they feel are more befitting to the higher nobility.

I fear for the names of the kings and queens of a place with naming traditions like this. Could make for some very long coronation ceremonies.

And yes, I do have a lot of time on my hands.

[Tundra]

hmn, i think that's a bit long lol. But interesting!

I like the whole 'where you come from' thing, because most families would be able to use that, as most noble families have their own homes. Though the point of a double barrelled name for the normal people was that it'd eliminate sexual discrimination by people 'losing a daughter' by losing her surname. So that would mean that the nobility would maybe take on the surname of whoever was most powerful at time of marriage?

Anyway, i'd like a name in the form of "from". Eg: Roderick from Adelaide

If these people were coming from earth, but say, a few centuries after, they start doing this way of naming, do you think they'd shorten 'from' to something else, or do you think it would just be Roderick Adelaide?

[AXJ]

I sorta like the whole prefix approach to toponyms. Eg, Roderick deAdelaide. Although using that to denote place is (AFAIK) no longer really in usage, maybe on the new planet someone decided it would be a good idea to revive that convention after remembering how mixed up things could get on earth. So instead of having 4 Michael Smiths in town, you could split it out by their original birthplace, so you've got one Michael Smith deGaffney, one Michael Smith deAnderson, and maybe two Michael Smith deGreenvilles. Or maybe, you aren't expected to use your toponym when you're currently in the town that you were born in? Dunno, you've got all sorts of cool possibilities there.

I think the Russian naming conventions (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/zgrammar.html) with all their patronymics and metronymics are pretty interesting, too. Of course you couldn't use anything so complicated in a novel, but they might give you some ideas. That same article also covers the Russian toponyms, which are likewise pretty cool.

[Tundra]

yeah that is pretty cool. i'm just wondering what prefix thing i should use. Von sounds most like the english "from"...

[AXJ]

Von would sort of pull me out of the fantasy genre... I'd keep thinking of the kid as being German. And I guess it'd make sense that these people would choose to swipe the prefix from earth's history, but to me, it'd still sort of break the fantasty spell a little bit. But that may just be me, I dunno....

Maybe twist it a little bit? Ron, Ran, Fon, Fan, Var, Dar, Dor?